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(Stephen) Hi, I'm Stephen Puddicombe.

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This is another episode 
in CFMWS's podcast series

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about grief and bereavement.

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Monica Bobbitt was a military spouse 
for almost 21 years.

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That changed in May 2014 
at CFB Wainwright.

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Her husband Dan was tragically killed 
in a LAV rollover during an exercise.

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Monica now devotes 
a great deal of her time

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to educating military families, members, 
and the public about grief.

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Hi, Monica.

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Now, Dan's death was a tragic reminder

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that soldiering is inherently 
dangerous profession.

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Not just on operations, but everyday life.

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(Monica) Oh, absolutely.

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I think, before Dan died,
in those years before that,

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we were so focused 
on the mission in Afghanistan,

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and that garnered so much publicity.

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But I don't think most Canadians,

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even many members 
of the military community themselves,

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realize just how many accidents, 
deaths, and injuries

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are caused during training accidents 
throughout the course of a year.

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So...

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(Stephen) Was there anything 
in your journey with grief

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that you missed out on
to help you through that period?

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(Monica) Yeah, I think 
it would have been in...

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when they come and notify you of a death,

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they don't...

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you have a <i>padre</i>, 
you have your notification party,

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and they talk to you basically about...

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give you the rundown 
about what's going to happen

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in the next few days, weeks, et cetera.

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But they actually 
don't give you any information

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on what grief actually looks like.

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And to me, I think that's such an omission

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because not everybody 
has gone through a significant trauma

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by that point in their lives 
or had a significant death.

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So, even though 
I had studied grief in university,

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I had no idea
what grief reactions to expect,

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I had no idea that I was going to be 
in shock for the first few weeks.

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And I remember walking around my house

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thinking like there's 
something wrong with me,

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like I can't focus, 
I can't sleep properly,

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and my memory... I couldn't remember
the simplest of things,

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and even the day they told me 
that Dan died,

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I just couldn't cry at first 
and I kept thinking,

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"What's wrong with me? 
My husband's just...

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they just told me my husband's died.

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Why am I not crying?"

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Well, it was because I was in shock,

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but I didn't have any information there

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to say, "Oh, okay. Yeah, this is
what you might expect to happen."

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Now, not everybody's going to experience
the same grief reactions,

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but if we had 
a basic information pamphlet

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that says, this is potentially the type 
of grief reactions you can expect,

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then it's reassuring.

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It's nice to have that,

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"Okay, this isn't unique to me,
I'm not losing my mind,

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there's not something wrong
with me or the way I'm grieving.

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And I think it's important 
that we let people know

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how all-encompassing grief can be.

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I think we should provide those 
basics of grief for bereaved families.

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And the other thing I think 
that I wished I'd had, and I didn't,

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is a list of grief-specific resources 
for my community.

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Who are the therapists and psychologists
who are specialized in grief counseling?

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What support groups are there

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for bereaved children 
or for bereaved widows, or parents?

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Is there art therapy, 
is there music therapy?

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Are there children-specific 
grief retreats?

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I didn't have that information

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and, honestly, I didn't have 
the cognitive capacity

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in those first few months 
to go search it out for myself.

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So I wish I'd had that early on.

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(Stephen) Monica, what other changes 
would you like to see today happen?

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Because your husband died in 2014,

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and we have seen a structural change 
in people dealing with grief,

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but there's still a lot of work 
to be done, I've been told.

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What would you like to see

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if the CDS or the Minister of Defense 
came to you and said,

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"Monica Bobbitt, you tell us what to do."

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What would you tell them?

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(Monica) Well, I try 
to get my message across

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every time I do a speaking event.

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First and foremost, I'd like to see

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an actual grief education package 
for our military members

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because, you know what,

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the military spends a lot of time 
training members to go to war,

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but they don't spend any time

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teaching them about the grief
war inevitably brings with it.

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One recent study found 
that combat exposure

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is almost as likely to cause grief

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as it is to lead to post-traumatic
stress disorder depression,

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but we never talk 
about the grieving part of it,

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even though military members 
and their families

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are at a higher risk
of developing complicated grief.

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So I think it's important 
that we educate our military members,

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and I also think it's important to see

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grief education provided 
for family members at that time

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so that they are better prepared

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because we do this after the fact.

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But if we want to have 
more resilient soldiers and families,

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then let's act preemptively.

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Let's educate them 
before anything happens

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so that they're aware,

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because most people
aren't aware of the enormous impact

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grief has on all areas of our lives.

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It's not just our physical 
and mental health,

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it's our relationships, our careers, 
our social connections,

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and our resiliency.

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So let's educate more.

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There's power in knowledge.

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(Stephen) You just mentioned something,
complicated grief.

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What does that mean?

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Complicated grief is...

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grief is a natural response to loss.

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But complicated grief occurs

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when your functioning 
is significantly impaired,

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and I'm not talking about 
the initial 6 months or 12 months.

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I'm talking about down-the-road,

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and you don't like 
to put timelines on grief

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because everybody goes 
through the grieving process

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at their own pace.

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But eventually we all should reach a spot

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where we can accept our loss,

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and move forward with their lives,

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and get back to living fully again.

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But for some people that's complicated,

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and they're not able 
to fully process their grief.

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The symptoms of complicated grief
are very similar to PTSD.

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So it's repeated thoughts of the trauma,

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people who have complicated grief, 
some of them contemplate suicide.

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I don't want to use the word "stuck,"
but it's almost like they are stuck.

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They can't get past their loss.

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They're constantly thinking
about the person they've lost,

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and it just really impairs their ability 
to move forward with their life,

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and their sadness becomes 
more like clinical depression.

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So it's a real issue in traumatic deaths,

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which, of course, military deaths 
are traumatic deaths for the most part.

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(Stephen) Monica, why is this subject
so difficult to deal with?

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(Monica) You know why?

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Death and grief, and it's not just 
in the military community,

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it's in our society in general, 
they're still just such taboo topics.

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So many of us were raised,
and I know I was raised in a household

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where we just didn't talk about death.

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And when you don't talk about it, 
implies that you shouldn't talk about it,

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and then we carry this misbelief 
with us into adulthood.

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And as a society, 
we have never been properly taught

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to openly discuss and process
the complexity of emotions

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that death, dying, and grief 
bring with them.

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We've been encouraged 
to deal with our trauma

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by embracing that, 
the stiff upper lip and carrying on.

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Grief is messy and complicated,

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and we're taught that it's not something
we should talk about in public,

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which just continually
perpetuates this myth

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that grief has five neat little stages,

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and it's something 
that we have to get over.

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And I think the other aspect of it is,

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it's unsettling to think and talk 
about your own mortality,

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the finality and uncertainty 
that surrounds death

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is very frightening for most of us.

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None of us wants to think about dying 
or having our loved ones die.

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The other aspect is, it also reminds us

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of all the things we haven't
accomplished in our life,

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which can cause anxiety and depression.

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When we discuss our immortality,
that forces us to do a life review,

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and maybe sometimes 
we're not completely happy

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with what we've done with our life.

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And in the military context,
it's often a morale thing.

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If we acknowledge the real possibility

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that all of our military members 
might not come home,

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that's bad for morale.

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We don't want to put 
any more worries on spouses and families,

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and I think it's that superstition:

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If we talk about it,
it's more likely to happen,

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which is, of course, utter rubbish,
but best not to tempt fate.

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So I think all of those things impact,

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play a part in the fact 
that we're just not comfortable

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about talking about death and grief.

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We need to be more open 
in our conversations about grief

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so that we do make it easier
on ourselves when we're grieving.

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But also, if we talk about it more,

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then it'll help us better enable us 
to support others

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who are going 
through the grieving process

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and it'll help dispel 
a lot of those myths of grief

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that we still have to this day.

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(Stephen) Monica, thank you so much
for joining us today.

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(Monica) Thank you for having me, Stephen.

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(Stephen) Monica Bobbitt 
is a military widow.

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She now devotes a great deal of her time

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dealing with grief 
and bereavement in the military.

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Thank you for listening 
to another of CFMWS's podcasts

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on grief and bereavement.

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If you have any comments or questions
or ideas for future episodes,

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please send them to us 
via the email provided on this webpage.

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Thank you for listening.